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Maria
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 Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:14 am Post subject: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
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for 10-16 year olds.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4322650.ece
Maybe they should vote for curfews being a condition of receiving tax
credits (9 ou of 10 families), and wear a hair shirt at the weekends.
Baaah... |
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Maria
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
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On Jul 13, 2:36 am, abelard <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:14:05 -0700 (PDT), Maria <i...@tajarts.co.uk
wrote:
for 10-16 year olds.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4322650.ece
Maybe they should vote for curfews being a condition of receiving tax
credits (9 ou of 10 families), and wear a hair shirt at the weekends.
Baaah...
"Our poll shows that 73% of parents would welcome an 8pm curfew for
young children while a further 17% would back one at 9pm. Similarly,
53% would welcome a nationwide 9pm curfew for 10 to 16-year-olds, with
a further 35% of parents saying a 10pm ban would be acceptable."
what does that lot mean?
no clear ages....
centralised government as in the uk is much of the problem...
what do they want.....intelligent mature 15 yo's can't be allowed
out....thick aggressive 17 yo's can....
it's just more bollox....
bring in franchise by examination...
bring in local courts and lock ups if anyone really wishes to
stop the yobs
|
I like the idea of local, but does that happen anymore? Much council
activity seems now to be dictated from cengov - rubbish issues, what
the council's priorities should be, etc etc. |
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abelard
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:14:05 -0700 (PDT), Maria <info@tajarts.co.uk>
wrote:
"Our poll shows that 73% of parents would welcome an 8pm curfew for
young children while a further 17% would back one at 9pm. Similarly,
53% would welcome a nationwide 9pm curfew for 10 to 16-year-olds, with
a further 35% of parents saying a 10pm ban would be acceptable."
what does that lot mean?
no clear ages....
centralised government as in the uk is much of the problem...
what do they want.....intelligent mature 15 yo's can't be allowed
out....thick aggressive 17 yo's can....
it's just more bollox....
bring in franchise by examination...
bring in local courts and lock ups if anyone really wishes to
stop the yobs
regards
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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abelard
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:51:34 -0700 (PDT), Maria <info@tajarts.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
On Jul 13, 2:36 am, abelard <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:14:05 -0700 (PDT), Maria <i...@tajarts.co.uk
wrote:
for 10-16 year olds.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4322650.ece
Maybe they should vote for curfews being a condition of receiving tax
credits (9 ou of 10 families), and wear a hair shirt at the weekends.
Baaah...
"Our poll shows that 73% of parents would welcome an 8pm curfew for
young children while a further 17% would back one at 9pm. Similarly,
53% would welcome a nationwide 9pm curfew for 10 to 16-year-olds, with
a further 35% of parents saying a 10pm ban would be acceptable."
what does that lot mean?
no clear ages....
centralised government as in the uk is much of the problem...
what do they want.....intelligent mature 15 yo's can't be allowed
out....thick aggressive 17 yo's can....
it's just more bollox....
bring in franchise by examination...
bring in local courts and lock ups if anyone really wishes to
stop the yobs
I like the idea of local, but does that happen anymore? Much council
activity seems now to be dictated from cengov - rubbish issues, what
the council's priorities should be, etc etc.
|
we have a centralising socialist government....
when i say local, i mean local.....vote for your local judges....vote
for your police chiefs....
regards
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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incognito
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
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|
On Jul 13, 1:19 pm, abelard <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:24:23 +0100, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply
wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:14:05 -0700, Maria wrote:
for 10-16 year olds.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4322650.ece
Maybe they should vote for curfews being a condition of receiving tax
credits (9 ou of 10 families), and wear a hair shirt at the weekends.
Baaah...
I doubt you can trust these stats. The papers lie on behalf of the
government directly so what's to stop them lying on their behalf
by misrepresenting public opinion? I certainly wouldn't have voted for any
curfew.
in the middle of a panic....+ slanted questioning?
'don't you think it's about time the government did something
to protect us from teen age knifers...choose any reply...
should they set up a curfew at 18yo for 12 pm?
or
should they set up a curfew at 16yo for 11 pm?
or
should they set up a curfew at 15yo for 11 pm?
or
should they set up a curfew at 15yo for 10 pm?
or
should they set up a curfew at 14yo for 10 pm?
or
should they set up a curfew at 5yo for 10 pm?
or
should they set up a curfew at 5yo for 8pm?
or
should they all be allowed to run around all night?
--
web site atwww.abelard.org- news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
It seems we live in an age where folk are prepared to accept anything
but, the dreaded word, punishment.
If loutish criminal kids were punished severely.............By sending
them to approved schools and borstal where they received their just
rewards………….Overnight a difference would occur.
In “approved schools, they would arise at 5.30 am and after cold
showers and ablutions they would receive enough breakfast to enable
them to work to their limits until lunchtime. After their midday meal
they would again be set to work on physically demanding tasks until
5pm. They would then receive an evening meal and, if they had behaved
properly during their working day, be allowed a couple of hours of
recreation. It would be lights out at 10 pm and no messing. Any that
refused to cooperate, in the disciplining that they had been
sentenced too, would either receive corporal punishment or have their
sentences extended.
Above would be for the pre-teens. All young ones over thirteen would
be treated more severely, this would entail even harder work. Any that
failed to behave or bullied other inmates would be punished by the
“cat” or the “birch”. They would soon learn that physically
attacking others was to be avoided at all costs as the retributions
were too fearful.
Those over eighteen would receive the same punishment as adults. Of
course adult punishments for criminality would have been increased
from the ridiculously low levels that they are at now. Any adult
caught carrying a weapon (knife, gun etc) would be sentenced to three
years “hard labour” which would, of course be at a higher intensity
then the normal physically demanding work rule. Any that repeated the
weapon carrying crime and were found guilty of carrying a gun or a
knife for a second time would receive a minimum of ten years “hard
labour” and this would be increased to a life sentence if they
repeated this offence for a third time.
Fifteen years it will take to cure the present scene, some of
today’s “berkish” commentators are saying. Well if above rules were
adopted immediately, the present anarchy would be suppressed within
three months. |
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Mel Rowing
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Jul 13, 3:29 pm, incognito <hempe...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
It seems we live in an age where folk are prepared to accept anything
but, the dreaded word, punishment.
If loutish criminal kids were punished severely.............By sending
them to approved schools and borstal where they received their just
rewards………….Overnight a difference would occur.
In “approved schools, they would arise at 5.30 am and after cold
showers and ablutions they would receive enough breakfast to enable
them to work to their limits until lunchtime. After their midday meal
they would again be set to work on physically demanding tasks until
5pm. They would then receive an evening meal and, if they had behaved
properly during their working day, be allowed a couple of hours of
recreation. It would be lights out at 10 pm and no messing. Any that
refused to cooperate, in the disciplining that they had been
sentenced too, would either receive corporal punishment or have their
sentences extended.
Above would be for the pre-teens. All young ones over thirteen would
be treated more severely, this would entail even harder work. Any that
failed to behave or bullied other inmates would be punished by the
“cat” or the “birch”. They would soon learn that physically
attacking others was to be avoided at all costs as the retributions
were too fearful.
Those over eighteen would receive the same punishment as adults. Of
course adult punishments for criminality would have been increased
from the ridiculously low levels that they are at now. Any adult
caught carrying a weapon (knife, gun etc) would be sentenced to three
years “hard labour” which would, of course be at a higher intensity
then the normal physically demanding work rule. Any that repeated the
weapon carrying crime and were found guilty of carrying a gun or a
knife for a second time would receive a minimum of ten years “hard
labour” and this would be increased to a life sentence if they
repeated this offence for a third time.
Fifteen years it will take to cure the present scene, some of
today’s “berkish” commentators are saying. Well if above rules were
adopted immediately, the present anarchy would be suppressed withinyin
three months
|
And of course if anyone killed with a knife or anything else he stood
a good chance of that 9-00 a.m. appointment with the public hangman.
You're right of course. The message would soon get around.
My lifetime has seen the abolition within the penal system of capital
punishment, hard labour, corporal punishment , preventative detention
(extended sentencing without remission for "incorrigible" criminals)
It has seen the introduction of community punishments (half of which
are never completed), suspended sentences, parole schemes, better
recreational facilities, in fact everything to make the prison
sentence less likely, shorter and more bearable. There is little
wonder it no longer serves any real deterrent purpose.
How much more effective prison could be if every prisoner leaving
prison had found the experience so unpleasant that he would die rather
than serve another sentence. Then the purpose of rehabilitation might
be served. |
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Dead Paul
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:14:05 -0700, Maria wrote:
I doubt you can trust these stats. The papers lie on behalf of the
government directly so what's to stop them lying on their behalf
by misrepresenting public opinion? I certainly wouldn't have voted for any
curfew.
--
___ _______ ___ ___ ___ __ ____
/ _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \ / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
/ // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/ /_/ |_\____/____/ |
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incognito
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Jul 13, 4:26 pm, "Michael C" <war...@warblyet.tyc> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Mel Rowing" <mel.row...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:cf3fcac8-4f74-45ac-8273-d0a39df7ff13@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com....
And of course if anyone killed with a knife or anything else he stood
a good chance of that 9-00 a.m. appointment with the public hangman.
You're right of course. The message would soon get around.
My lifetime has seen the abolition within the penal system of capital
punishment, hard labour, corporal punishment , preventative detention
(extended sentencing without remission for "incorrigible" criminals)
It has seen the introduction of community punishments (half of which
are never completed), suspended sentences, parole schemes, better
recreational facilities, in fact everything to make the prison
sentence less likely, shorter and more bearable. There is little
wonder it no longer serves any real deterrent purpose.
How much more effective prison could be if every prisoner leaving
prison had found the experience so unpleasant that he would die rather
than serve another sentence. Then the purpose of rehabilitation might
be served.
Really? So you think that in your lifetime the crime rate has gone up then?
Pray tell, when was this panacea of Britain around? What year was crime so
low that no-one had anything to worry about?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
|
I doubt if English is your first language! If it is you write
inelegantly. (to be kind) If it is not then do try, dear boy, to use
words correctly. For example, below is taken from your post:
“Pray tell, when was this panacea of Britain around?”
If you cannot see why above is syntactically wrong, return to your
English studies.
Now if you want a reply to a question such as: “Has Britain ever found
a panacea for criminal activities”?…………………………The answer is no.
However, the period between the two world wars, (WW1 & WW2) was a
relatively safe period for ordinary folk to carry on with their daily
living patterns. There was no mugging and street crime, in general,
was minimal. Gangs of youths did not hold whole neighbourhoods in
fear. Travel on trains, tubes and other forms of public transport was
totally safe. One could send one’s children to school and not be
fearful that they be returned home in a coffin.
Stabbing and gun crimes were so rare, that if an incident did occur,
it would have been headline news for days on end. Now they are so
frequent that they do not necessarily appear on the front pages.
Hope you find my comments helpful. |
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incognito
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Jul 13, 4:11 pm, Richard Miller <rich...@seasalter0.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
In message
69107f9f-d7b6-46f9-bf11-847dbbc26...@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
incognito <hempe...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
It seems we live in an age where folk are prepared to accept anything
but, the dreaded word, punishment. If loutish criminal kids were
punished severely.............By sending them to approved schools and
borstal where they received their just rewards………….Overnight a
difference would occur.
Yes it would. Overnight we would turn a significantly higher proportion
of our young offenders into lifelong criminals.
But don't let little things like wholly uncontested criminological
evidence affect your views.
--
Richard Miller
|
You mean that men and youths in custody for knifing and gun crimes,
will come out cured from wishing to murder, under the present system?
You must have just arrived from the “Planet Of The Apes" if you
sincerely believe this.
When you have become used to living back on earth again, will you
please show in detail this "uncontested criminological evidence!
There’s a good chap! |
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abelard
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:24:23 +0100, Dead Paul <dead_paul@no.reply>
wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:14:05 -0700, Maria wrote:
for 10-16 year olds.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4322650.ece
Maybe they should vote for curfews being a condition of receiving tax
credits (9 ou of 10 families), and wear a hair shirt at the weekends.
Baaah...
I doubt you can trust these stats. The papers lie on behalf of the
government directly so what's to stop them lying on their behalf
by misrepresenting public opinion? I certainly wouldn't have voted for any
curfew.
|
in the middle of a panic....+ slanted questioning?
'don't you think it's about time the government did something
to protect us from teen age knifers...choose any reply...
should they set up a curfew at 18yo for 12 pm?
or
should they set up a curfew at 16yo for 11 pm?
or
should they set up a curfew at 15yo for 11 pm?
or
should they set up a curfew at 15yo for 10 pm?
or
should they set up a curfew at 14yo for 10 pm?
or
should they set up a curfew at 5yo for 10 pm?
or
should they set up a curfew at 5yo for 8pm?
or
should they all be allowed to run around all night?
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
|
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Richard Miller
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
In message
<69107f9f-d7b6-46f9-bf11-847dbbc263b1@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
incognito <hempers7@yahoo.co.uk> writes
| Quote: |
It seems we live in an age where folk are prepared to accept anything
but, the dreaded word, punishment. If loutish criminal kids were
punished severely.............By sending them to approved schools and
borstal where they received their just rewards………….Overnight a
difference would occur.
|
Yes it would. Overnight we would turn a significantly higher proportion
of our young offenders into lifelong criminals.
But don't let little things like wholly uncontested criminological
evidence affect your views.
--
Richard Miller |
|
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Michael C
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
| Quote: |
"Mel Rowing" <mel.rowing@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:cf3fcac8-4f74-45ac-8273-d0a39df7ff13@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
And of course if anyone killed with a knife or anything else he stood
a good chance of that 9-00 a.m. appointment with the public hangman.
You're right of course. The message would soon get around.
My lifetime has seen the abolition within the penal system of capital
punishment, hard labour, corporal punishment , preventative detention
(extended sentencing without remission for "incorrigible" criminals)
It has seen the introduction of community punishments (half of which
are never completed), suspended sentences, parole schemes, better
recreational facilities, in fact everything to make the prison
sentence less likely, shorter and more bearable. There is little
wonder it no longer serves any real deterrent purpose.
How much more effective prison could be if every prisoner leaving
prison had found the experience so unpleasant that he would die rather
than serve another sentence. Then the purpose of rehabilitation might
be served.
|
Really? So you think that in your lifetime the crime rate has gone up then?
Pray tell, when was this panacea of Britain around? What year was crime so
low that no-one had anything to worry about? |
|
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Dr Quite
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
"Richard Miller" <richard@seasalter0.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2aQ9foVqsheIFw9V@seasalter0.demon.co.uk...
| Quote: |
In message
69107f9f-d7b6-46f9-bf11-847dbbc263b1@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
incognito <hempers7@yahoo.co.uk> writes
It seems we live in an age where folk are prepared to accept anything but,
the dreaded word, punishment. If loutish criminal kids were punished
severely.............By sending them to approved schools and borstal where
they received their just rewards.....Overnight a difference would occur.
Yes it would. Overnight we would turn a significantly higher proportion of
our young offenders into lifelong criminals.
|
They usually stop being lifelong criminals when they're in jail. Apart from
maybe possession of class A medicaments. |
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Michael C
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
| Quote: |
"incognito" <hempers7@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:78844e25-528c-4398-98d3-6d068b2ceaff@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
I doubt if English is your first language! If it is you write
inelegantly. (to be kind) If it is not then do try, dear boy, to use
words correctly. For example, below is taken from your post:
“Pray tell, when was this panacea of Britain around?”
If you cannot see why above is syntactically wrong, return to your
English studies.
Now if you want a reply to a question such as: “Has Britain ever found
a panacea for criminal activities”?…………………………The answer is no.
|
If you want to try and be a smart arse might I suggest that you avoid making
mistakes yourself.
| Quote: |
However, the period between the two world wars, (WW1 & WW2) was a
relatively safe period for ordinary folk to carry on with their daily
living patterns. There was no mugging and street crime, in general,
was minimal. Gangs of youths did not hold whole neighbourhoods in
fear. Travel on trains, tubes and other forms of public transport was
totally safe. One could send one’s children to school and not be
fearful that they be returned home in a coffin.
Stabbing and gun crimes were so rare, that if an incident did occur,
it would have been headline news for days on end. Now they are so
frequent that they do not necessarily appear on the front pages.
|
This is mostly bollocks, but even if it was true it doesn't seem to
correlate with your earlier claim about prison no longer being something
that people are scared of. What about the periods just before WWI and just
after WWII?
| Quote: |
Hope you find my comments helpful.
|
Likewise. |
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Thore
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:20:18 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
<mel.rowing@btinternet.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
And of course if anyone killed with a knife or anything else he stood
a good chance of that 9-00 a.m. appointment with the public hangman.
You're right of course. The message would soon get around.
My lifetime has seen the abolition within the penal system of capital
punishment, hard labour, corporal punishment , preventative detention
(extended sentencing without remission for "incorrigible" criminals)
|
And the abolition of the right to bear arms.
> |
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