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Cynic
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 Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:59:11 +0100, Thored<invalid@invalid.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
It is only of use in reducing the probability that that *particular*
offender will re-offend, and has no effect on other potential
offenders. It must also be carefully managed so that the offender is
guided into empathising with his victim. Some offenders do not have a
suitable personality, and would never feel sympathy - especially where
he is of a different race or culture to the victim.
They certainly will not feel sympathy for those they despise anyway
The despising is against a concept rather than an individual. One
gang member may despise all members of an oposing gang - just as a
British soldier might despise German soldiers - as abstract concepts.
What if it isn't an abstract concept?
They may quite well hate anyone connected with the 'concept'. A few
years ago I could have introduced you to an ex POW of the Japanese. He
was greatly disappointed the allies did not nuke the entire country.
When some japanese engineers visited in the 60s he was sent home on
full pay as a precaution.
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Pity. He would probably have benefitted by facing some Japanese that
did not conform to his concept, and would be most unlikely to have
done anything untoward.
| Quote: |
But getting close up and personal in a 1:1 meeting where there is no
threat is a different thing entirely. The other person ceases to
represent the hated enemy and becomes just another human being.
But quite probably one he would like to kill.
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No, that is *very* rarely how it turns out. You will often come
across examples of this. A person may be a rabid racist who honestly
believes that he hates all black people - but gets on perfectly OK
with a black work collegue. The contradiction occurs because the
hatred is of a stereotype or concept whilst the work collegue does not
fit that concept and so is regarded as being "not really black".
It is fairly easy to hate a stranger who you have only heard about.
It is *far* more difficult to hate a person you have had a reasonable
amount of personal interaction with.
--
Cynic |
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Alang
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:15:55 +0100, Cynic <cynic_999@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:59:11 +0100, Thored<invalid@invalid.co.uk
wrote:
It is only of use in reducing the probability that that *particular*
offender will re-offend, and has no effect on other potential
offenders. It must also be carefully managed so that the offender is
guided into empathising with his victim. Some offenders do not have a
suitable personality, and would never feel sympathy - especially where
he is of a different race or culture to the victim.
They certainly will not feel sympathy for those they despise anyway
The despising is against a concept rather than an individual. One
gang member may despise all members of an oposing gang - just as a
British soldier might despise German soldiers - as abstract concepts.
What if it isn't an abstract concept?
They may quite well hate anyone connected with the 'concept'. A few
years ago I could have introduced you to an ex POW of the Japanese. He
was greatly disappointed the allies did not nuke the entire country.
When some japanese engineers visited in the 60s he was sent home on
full pay as a precaution.
Pity. He would probably have benefitted by facing some Japanese that
did not conform to his concept, and would be most unlikely to have
done anything untoward.
|
On the other hand he may well have attacked and killed. It wasn't a
concept. He just hated the japanese with all his heart. All of them.
| Quote: |
But getting close up and personal in a 1:1 meeting where there is no
threat is a different thing entirely. The other person ceases to
represent the hated enemy and becomes just another human being.
But quite probably one he would like to kill.
No, that is *very* rarely how it turns out. You will often come
across examples of this. A person may be a rabid racist who honestly
believes that he hates all black people - but gets on perfectly OK
with a black work collegue. The contradiction occurs because the
hatred is of a stereotype or concept whilst the work collegue does not
fit that concept and so is regarded as being "not really black".
|
But that isn't always the case. The treatment of dehumanised prisoners
is a matter of history. When the hate figure is considered les than
human then it becomes quite easy to kill and maim
| Quote: |
It is fairly easy to hate a stranger who you have only heard about.
It is *far* more difficult to hate a person you have had a reasonable
amount of personal interaction with.
|
No it isn't.
Husbands and wives wouldn't kill each other if that were the case |
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Cynic
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:26:14 +0100, Alang <invalid@invalid.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
Pity. He would probably have benefitted by facing some Japanese that
did not conform to his concept, and would be most unlikely to have
done anything untoward.
On the other hand he may well have attacked and killed. It wasn't a
concept. He just hated the japanese with all his heart. All of them.
|
You cannot hate a whole race of people as anything else *other* than
as hatred of a concept or stereotype. Unless the person you speak of
was clinically insane your scenario is unlikely in the extreme.
| Quote: |
But getting close up and personal in a 1:1 meeting where there is no
threat is a different thing entirely. The other person ceases to
represent the hated enemy and becomes just another human being.
But quite probably one he would like to kill.
No, that is *very* rarely how it turns out. You will often come
across examples of this. A person may be a rabid racist who honestly
believes that he hates all black people - but gets on perfectly OK
with a black work collegue. The contradiction occurs because the
hatred is of a stereotype or concept whilst the work collegue does not
fit that concept and so is regarded as being "not really black".
But that isn't always the case. The treatment of dehumanised prisoners
is a matter of history. When the hate figure is considered les than
human then it becomes quite easy to kill and maim
|
It takes a very rare type of person who can cold-bloodedly (i.e. not
in the heat of battle, anger or fear) torture or kill a complete
stranger who is helpless before them unless there is significant
tangible gain in doing so. Even then it is usually at least partially
for the purpose of something more than the infliction of pain.
De-humanisation ceases to work on the vast majority of people as soon
as the object of that process becomes known as a person. It works
pretty much *only* in the abstract.
| Quote: |
It is fairly easy to hate a stranger who you have only heard about.
It is *far* more difficult to hate a person you have had a reasonable
amount of personal interaction with.
No it isn't.
Husbands and wives wouldn't kill each other if that were the case
|
That is an entirely different thing. In that case the person hates a
particular individual because of how they have *personally* behaved.
Group hatred is separate to personal hatred. The wife murderer does
not have a hatred for *all* women, just a particular woman. As
opposed to the psychopath who has a hatred for women and murders
complete stranger - but who may well love and protect his
wife/mother/sister.
(There is the condition where hatred for a specific person has become
generalised, but it is even more rare).
--
Cynic |
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