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William Black
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 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
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"James Hammerton" <jah.usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6e22j7F4t4orU1@mid.individual.net...
| Quote: |
William Black wrote:
"James Hammerton" <jah.usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6e1ovcF4u1d0U2@mid.individual.net...
Janitor of Lunacy wrote:
Thored wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:20:18 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
mel.rowing@btinternet.com> wrote:
And of course if anyone killed with a knife or anything else he stood
a good chance of that 9-00 a.m. appointment with the public hangman.
You're right of course. The message would soon get around.
My lifetime has seen the abolition within the penal system of capital
punishment, hard labour, corporal punishment , preventative detention
(extended sentencing without remission for "incorrigible" criminals)
And the abolition of the right to bear arms.
Hmmm. That one seems to have passed me by. When did we ever have that
right?
The following article has a potted history of the right to bear arms in
the UK. It also doubles as a history and posited explanation for the
erosion of liberty, from someone who believes in the the right to bear
arms:
http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/SlipperySlope.htm
In the one page I bothered to read there are a whole series of dreadful
errors of fact.
I looked at the pages relating to the 1910 and 1911 Anarchist outrages in
London and both refer to the Anarchists as being armed with rifles when
in reality they were armed with Mauser and Browning pistols.
My apologies. The article's coverage of the 20th century legislation on
firearms accorded with my knowledge, and I trusted it on some matters
which I'm not familiar with (e.g. the episode you refer to).
I shall be wary of that source in future. I note that the following
confirms your point about pistols being used, not rifles:
http://www.met.police.uk/history/sidney_street.htm
Was that the sum total of the series of dreadful errors of fact you
spotted?
|
Three bodies found in Sydney Street I think.
The identity of Peter the Painter is well known.
Look, this is just a couple of paragraphs I read.
I suggest that you do some proper research with books and not read web sites
for historical information.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea. |
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Richard Miller
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
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In message
<6727e8e9-0966-402e-bbe7-7cde5e188c70@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Logician <sales@logicians.com> writes
| Quote: |
Brown has fixed it: criminals will be forced to visit victims. That
will certainly stop the crime rates. Most criminals will fear visiting
the hospital ridden victims.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23515940-details/Knife+te
enagers+will+be+made+to+sweep+streets/article.do "Home Secretary Jacqui
Smith unveiled a plan yesterday to make offenders go to casualty wards
to meet victims but it sparked an immediate backlash from doctors. "
|
I despair of this Government. The attitude of your average gun carrier
to being faced with a knifing victim would be "You stupid f***er, it's
because I don't want to end up like that that I carry a knife."
--
Richard Miller |
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Dave Baker
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:34 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
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|
"Richard Miller" <richard@seasalter0.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6xcOVXFevOfIFwmX@seasalter0.demon.co.uk...
| Quote: |
In message
6727e8e9-0966-402e-bbe7-7cde5e188c70@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Logician <sales@logicians.com> writes
Brown has fixed it: criminals will be forced to visit victims. That will
certainly stop the crime rates. Most criminals will fear visiting the
hospital ridden victims.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23515940-details/Knife+te
enagers+will+be+made+to+sweep+streets/article.do "Home Secretary Jacqui
Smith unveiled a plan yesterday to make offenders go to casualty wards to
meet victims but it sparked an immediate backlash from doctors. "
I despair of this Government. The attitude of your average gun carrier to
being faced with a knifing victim would be "You stupid f***er, it's
because I don't want to end up like that that I carry a knife."
|
Agreed. I can't imagine that anyone who carries a knife will be either
disturbed or educated by seeing what effect a knife wound had on someone
else. I think it's pretty bleeding obvious what a knife does when you stick
it in someone. This government lurches from one absurd knee jerk reaction to
another apparently without any intelligence being utilised during the
process.
Perhaps because knife crime is now such a problem and clearly not just an
"ordinary" crime like other crimes the government should introduce 42 day
detention without trial to allow the police longer to investigate people
suspected of it. Once they've got knife crime licked then something lesser
like littering with intent will become the next big problem and we can have
42 day detention without trial to cope with that too. Perhaps people
convicted of littering should be made to face the proud house owners whose
streets have been desecrated so they can appreciate what a terrible impact
their crime has had on these other good citizen's lives.
You see knife criminals are not ordinary criminals just like terrorists are
not ordinary criminals. We need to have a flexible system of law which can
toss age old safeguards like Habeus Corpus into the trash can when it's
necessary to preserve the safety of the sheeples.
The alternative would be to fund a properly effective police force with more
officers on the beat, get rid of stupid targets that reward arrests for
swearing and weed out the officers who do fuck all and spend most of their
time buying sweeties in Tesco. Nah, what am I thinking, that's just a daft
approach. We need better statistics - or at least more of them.
--
Dave Baker |
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BikeFan
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
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|
Dave Baker wrote:
| Quote: |
"Richard Miller" <richard@seasalter0.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6xcOVXFevOfIFwmX@seasalter0.demon.co.uk...
In message
6727e8e9-0966-402e-bbe7-7cde5e188c70@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Logician <sales@logicians.com> writes
Brown has fixed it: criminals will be forced to visit victims. That will
certainly stop the crime rates. Most criminals will fear visiting the
hospital ridden victims.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23515940-details/Knife+te
enagers+will+be+made+to+sweep+streets/article.do "Home Secretary Jacqui
Smith unveiled a plan yesterday to make offenders go to casualty wards to
meet victims but it sparked an immediate backlash from doctors. "
I despair of this Government. The attitude of your average gun carrier to
being faced with a knifing victim would be "You stupid f***er, it's
because I don't want to end up like that that I carry a knife."
Agreed. I can't imagine that anyone who carries a knife will be either
disturbed or educated by seeing what effect a knife wound had on someone
else. I think it's pretty bleeding obvious what a knife does when you stick
it in someone. This government lurches from one absurd knee jerk reaction to
another apparently without any intelligence being utilised during the
process.
Perhaps because knife crime is now such a problem and clearly not just an
"ordinary" crime like other crimes the government should introduce 42 day
detention without trial to allow the police longer to investigate people
suspected of it. Once they've got knife crime licked then something lesser
like littering with intent will become the next big problem and we can have
42 day detention without trial to cope with that too. Perhaps people
convicted of littering should be made to face the proud house owners whose
streets have been desecrated so they can appreciate what a terrible impact
their crime has had on these other good citizen's lives.
You see knife criminals are not ordinary criminals just like terrorists are
not ordinary criminals. We need to have a flexible system of law which can
toss age old safeguards like Habeus Corpus into the trash can when it's
necessary to preserve the safety of the sheeples.
The alternative would be to fund a properly effective police force with more
officers on the beat, get rid of stupid targets that reward arrests for
swearing and weed out the officers who do fuck all and spend most of their
time buying sweeties in Tesco. Nah, what am I thinking, that's just a daft
approach. We need better statistics - or at least more of them.
|
Go with the Not the Nine O'Clock News Option - Cut their goolies off!
--
BikeFan |
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James Hammerton
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:36 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
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|
Richard Miller wrote:
| Quote: |
In message
6727e8e9-0966-402e-bbe7-7cde5e188c70@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Logician <sales@logicians.com> writes
Brown has fixed it: criminals will be forced to visit victims. That
will certainly stop the crime rates. Most criminals will fear visiting
the hospital ridden victims.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23515940-details/Knife+te
enagers+will+be+made+to+sweep+streets/article.do "Home Secretary
Jacqui Smith unveiled a plan yesterday to make offenders go to
casualty wards to meet victims but it sparked an immediate backlash
from doctors. "
I despair of this Government. The attitude of your average gun carrier
to being faced with a knifing victim would be "You stupid f***er, it's
because I don't want to end up like that that I carry a knife."
|
I think there's an even worse problem (and I'm glad there are reports
this has been dropped). Some of those who'd use the knives other than in
self defence on seeing the damage that can be done might actually be
encouraged to commit crimes against those they don't like. E.g. "Imagine
if I did that to that prick who's stolen my girlfriend"...
It's why I wonder at the adds that show the damage done. Yes it may
shock decent people and those who feel pressured into using knives by
their peers, but those who have no regard for the law or for life might
actually take entirely the wrong message.
James
--
James Hammerton,
http://jameshammerton.blogspot.com/
http://www.magnacartaplus.org/news/ |
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Maria
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
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|
On Jul 16, 2:00 pm, Cynic <cynic_...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:26:38 +0100, Richard Miller
rich...@seasalter0.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I despair of this Government. The attitude of your average gun carrier
to being faced with a knifing victim would be "You stupid f***er, it's
because I don't want to end up like that that I carry a knife."
I understood that the idea was to have the perpetrator visit *his own*
victim. That can in fact work in some cases. It is easier to ignore
the effect of your crime when the victim is a faceless unknown, but
far more difficult when the victim has a personality and the effect on
their life is real. Similar to the difference in the remorse you
would feel between running over an unknown old lady in a foreign
country, and running over your own grandmother outside her house.
It is only of use in reducing the probability that that *particular*
offender will re-offend, and has no effect on other potential
offenders. It must also be carefully managed so that the offender is
guided into empathising with his victim. Some offenders do not have a
suitable personality, and would never feel sympathy - especially where
he is of a different race or culture to the victim.
|
Or where he knew the victim? Surely if he was not a stranger, and
actually intended to cause serious harm, then showing them the
injuries will cause a serious bout of gloating, not remorse.
What proportion of stab victims were stabbed by someone they didn't
know? |
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Cynic
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:26:38 +0100, Richard Miller
<richard@seasalter0.demon.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
I despair of this Government. The attitude of your average gun carrier
to being faced with a knifing victim would be "You stupid f***er, it's
because I don't want to end up like that that I carry a knife."
|
I understood that the idea was to have the perpetrator visit *his own*
victim. That can in fact work in some cases. It is easier to ignore
the effect of your crime when the victim is a faceless unknown, but
far more difficult when the victim has a personality and the effect on
their life is real. Similar to the difference in the remorse you
would feel between running over an unknown old lady in a foreign
country, and running over your own grandmother outside her house.
It is only of use in reducing the probability that that *particular*
offender will re-offend, and has no effect on other potential
offenders. It must also be carefully managed so that the offender is
guided into empathising with his victim. Some offenders do not have a
suitable personality, and would never feel sympathy - especially where
he is of a different race or culture to the victim.
--
Cynic |
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Cynic
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 06:28:02 -0700 (PDT), Maria <info@tajarts.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
It is only of use in reducing the probability that that *particular*
offender will re-offend, and has no effect on other potential
offenders. It must also be carefully managed so that the offender is
guided into empathising with his victim. Some offenders do not have a
suitable personality, and would never feel sympathy - especially where
he is of a different race or culture to the victim.
Or where he knew the victim? Surely if he was not a stranger, and
actually intended to cause serious harm, then showing them the
injuries will cause a serious bout of gloating, not remorse.
What proportion of stab victims were stabbed by someone they didn't
know?
|
Knowing someone as an amphorous gang member is different to knowing
that person as a human being with hopes, ambitions and feelings.
--
Cynic |
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Thore
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:00:08 +0100, Cynic <cynic_999@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:26:38 +0100, Richard Miller
richard@seasalter0.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I despair of this Government. The attitude of your average gun carrier
to being faced with a knifing victim would be "You stupid f***er, it's
because I don't want to end up like that that I carry a knife."
I understood that the idea was to have the perpetrator visit *his own*
victim. That can in fact work in some cases. It is easier to ignore
the effect of your crime when the victim is a faceless unknown, but
far more difficult when the victim has a personality and the effect on
their life is real.
|
Not very likely if the stabbee is someone the stabber despises. Were I
to have an opportunity to hack Anthony Blair or Margaret Thatcher with
an axe I doubt showing me the results would get more than a desire to
do the same to Michael Howard or Jack Straw
| Quote: |
Similar to the difference in the remorse you
would feel between running over an unknown old lady in a foreign
country, and running over your own grandmother outside her house.
|
I would feel remorse in both cases since the old ladies would likely
have been no threat to me
| Quote: |
It is only of use in reducing the probability that that *particular*
offender will re-offend, and has no effect on other potential
offenders. It must also be carefully managed so that the offender is
guided into empathising with his victim. Some offenders do not have a
suitable personality, and would never feel sympathy - especially where
he is of a different race or culture to the victim.
|
They certainly will not feel sympathy for those they despise anyway |
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abelard
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:10 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:45:02 +0100, James Hammerton
<jah.usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
abelard wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:51:34 -0700 (PDT), Maria <info@tajarts.co.uk
wrote:
On Jul 13, 2:36 am, abelard <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:14:05 -0700 (PDT), Maria <i...@tajarts.co.uk
wrote:
for 10-16 year olds.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4322650.ece
Maybe they should vote for curfews being a condition of receiving tax
credits (9 ou of 10 families), and wear a hair shirt at the weekends.
Baaah...
"Our poll shows that 73% of parents would welcome an 8pm curfew for
young children while a further 17% would back one at 9pm. Similarly,
53% would welcome a nationwide 9pm curfew for 10 to 16-year-olds, with
a further 35% of parents saying a 10pm ban would be acceptable."
what does that lot mean?
no clear ages....
centralised government as in the uk is much of the problem...
what do they want.....intelligent mature 15 yo's can't be allowed
out....thick aggressive 17 yo's can....
it's just more bollox....
bring in franchise by examination...
bring in local courts and lock ups if anyone really wishes to
stop the yobs
I like the idea of local, but does that happen anymore? Much council
activity seems now to be dictated from cengov - rubbish issues, what
the council's priorities should be, etc etc.
we have a centralising socialist government....
when i say local, i mean local.....vote for your local judges....vote
for your police chiefs....
There's also the centralising EU constraining action further.
|
i do wonder somewhat when i see the great devolution on the continent
regards
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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James Hammerton
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
abelard wrote:
| Quote: |
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:45:02 +0100, James Hammerton
jah.usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
abelard wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:51:34 -0700 (PDT), Maria <info@tajarts.co.uk
wrote:
On Jul 13, 2:36 am, abelard <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:14:05 -0700 (PDT), Maria <i...@tajarts.co.uk
wrote:
for 10-16 year olds.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4322650.ece
Maybe they should vote for curfews being a condition of receiving tax
credits (9 ou of 10 families), and wear a hair shirt at the weekends.
Baaah...
"Our poll shows that 73% of parents would welcome an 8pm curfew for
young children while a further 17% would back one at 9pm. Similarly,
53% would welcome a nationwide 9pm curfew for 10 to 16-year-olds, with
a further 35% of parents saying a 10pm ban would be acceptable."
what does that lot mean?
no clear ages....
centralised government as in the uk is much of the problem...
what do they want.....intelligent mature 15 yo's can't be allowed
out....thick aggressive 17 yo's can....
it's just more bollox....
bring in franchise by examination...
bring in local courts and lock ups if anyone really wishes to
stop the yobs
I like the idea of local, but does that happen anymore? Much council
activity seems now to be dictated from cengov - rubbish issues, what
the council's priorities should be, etc etc.
we have a centralising socialist government....
when i say local, i mean local.....vote for your local judges....vote
for your police chiefs....
There's also the centralising EU constraining action further.
i do wonder somewhat when i see the great devolution on the continent
|
Hmm.
It is quite clear that the EU is grabbing power from national
parliaments. In Britain's centralised system, I guess that is likely to
constrain local government more than it does with a more decentralised
system. At the same time EU directives are supposed to be obeyed by both
local and national governments, so I doubt the greater levels of
decentralisation on the continent allows local governments to remain
unaffected by EU decisions.
James
--
James Hammerton,
http://jameshammerton.blogspot.com/
http://www.magnacartaplus.org/news/ |
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abelard
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:50 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:40:01 +0100, James Hammerton
<jah.usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
abelard wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:45:02 +0100, James Hammerton
jah.usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
abelard wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:51:34 -0700 (PDT), Maria <info@tajarts.co.uk
wrote:
On Jul 13, 2:36 am, abelard <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:14:05 -0700 (PDT), Maria <i...@tajarts.co.uk
wrote:
for 10-16 year olds.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4322650.ece
Maybe they should vote for curfews being a condition of receiving tax
credits (9 ou of 10 families), and wear a hair shirt at the weekends.
Baaah...
"Our poll shows that 73% of parents would welcome an 8pm curfew for
young children while a further 17% would back one at 9pm. Similarly,
53% would welcome a nationwide 9pm curfew for 10 to 16-year-olds, with
a further 35% of parents saying a 10pm ban would be acceptable."
what does that lot mean?
no clear ages....
centralised government as in the uk is much of the problem...
what do they want.....intelligent mature 15 yo's can't be allowed
out....thick aggressive 17 yo's can....
it's just more bollox....
bring in franchise by examination...
bring in local courts and lock ups if anyone really wishes to
stop the yobs
I like the idea of local, but does that happen anymore? Much council
activity seems now to be dictated from cengov - rubbish issues, what
the council's priorities should be, etc etc.
we have a centralising socialist government....
when i say local, i mean local.....vote for your local judges....vote
for your police chiefs....
There's also the centralising EU constraining action further.
i do wonder somewhat when i see the great devolution on the continent
Hmm.
It is quite clear that the EU is grabbing power from national
parliaments.
|
certainly
| Quote: |
In Britain's centralised system, I guess that is likely to
constrain local government more than it does with a more decentralised
system.
|
again, certainly...
| Quote: |
At the same time EU directives are supposed to be obeyed by both
local and national governments, so I doubt the greater levels of
decentralisation on the continent allows local governments to remain
unaffected by EU decisions.
|
i regard tragedy of the commons issues a one of the two legitimate
areas of legitimate government action....such issues are (and
must be) rapidly internationalising
the eu at least pretends in that direction...
the tariff wall is another matter....
the devolution in france has increased since the eussr....
the freedom attacks by socialist idiots in the uk have been slightly
constrained by the eussr...
thus
1)i don't think i'm sufficiently informed to make a full assessment..
2)as the situation combined with the level of my data, i must perforce
see the situation somewhat ambiguously
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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Cynic
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:01 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:15:51 +0100, Thored<invalid@invalid.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
It is only of use in reducing the probability that that *particular*
offender will re-offend, and has no effect on other potential
offenders. It must also be carefully managed so that the offender is
guided into empathising with his victim. Some offenders do not have a
suitable personality, and would never feel sympathy - especially where
he is of a different race or culture to the victim.
They certainly will not feel sympathy for those they despise anyway
|
The despising is against a concept rather than an individual. One
gang member may despise all members of an oposing gang - just as a
British soldier might despise German soldiers - as abstract concepts.
But getting close up and personal in a 1:1 meeting where there is no
threat is a different thing entirely. The other person ceases to
represent the hated enemy and becomes just another human being.
--
Cynic |
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James Hammerton
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:38 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
abelard wrote:
| Quote: |
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:40:01 +0100, James Hammerton
jah.usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
abelard wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:45:02 +0100, James Hammerton
jah.usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
abelard wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:51:34 -0700 (PDT), Maria <info@tajarts.co.uk
wrote:
On Jul 13, 2:36 am, abelard <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:14:05 -0700 (PDT), Maria <i...@tajarts.co.uk
wrote:
for 10-16 year olds.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4322650.ece
Maybe they should vote for curfews being a condition of receiving tax
credits (9 ou of 10 families), and wear a hair shirt at the weekends.
Baaah...
"Our poll shows that 73% of parents would welcome an 8pm curfew for
young children while a further 17% would back one at 9pm. Similarly,
53% would welcome a nationwide 9pm curfew for 10 to 16-year-olds, with
a further 35% of parents saying a 10pm ban would be acceptable."
what does that lot mean?
no clear ages....
centralised government as in the uk is much of the problem...
what do they want.....intelligent mature 15 yo's can't be allowed
out....thick aggressive 17 yo's can....
it's just more bollox....
bring in franchise by examination...
bring in local courts and lock ups if anyone really wishes to
stop the yobs
I like the idea of local, but does that happen anymore? Much council
activity seems now to be dictated from cengov - rubbish issues, what
the council's priorities should be, etc etc.
we have a centralising socialist government....
when i say local, i mean local.....vote for your local judges....vote
for your police chiefs....
There's also the centralising EU constraining action further.
i do wonder somewhat when i see the great devolution on the continent
Hmm.
It is quite clear that the EU is grabbing power from national
parliaments.
certainly
In Britain's centralised system, I guess that is likely to
constrain local government more than it does with a more decentralised
system.
again, certainly...
At the same time EU directives are supposed to be obeyed by both
local and national governments, so I doubt the greater levels of
decentralisation on the continent allows local governments to remain
unaffected by EU decisions.
i regard tragedy of the commons issues a one of the two legitimate
areas of legitimate government action....such issues are (and
must be) rapidly internationalising
the eu at least pretends in that direction...
the tariff wall is another matter....
the devolution in france has increased since the eussr....
the freedom attacks by socialist idiots in the uk have been slightly
constrained by the eussr...
|
Bear in mind the ECHR is administered by the Council of Europe and the
European Court of Human Rights, which are not EU bodies.
Also, the European Arrest Warrant has enabled, extradition between EU
states without evidence being presented in the extraditing country's
courts, though, typically, New Labour extended this arrangement to the
US, without reciprocation!
| Quote: |
thus
1)i don't think i'm sufficiently informed to make a full assessment..
2)as the situation combined with the level of my data, i must perforce
see the situation somewhat ambiguously
|
Fairynuff.
The way I see it, the EU's a slower burn threat to liberty than New
Labour...
James
--
James Hammerton,
http://jameshammerton.blogspot.com/
http://www.magnacartaplus.org/news/ |
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Thore
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:01:43 +0100, Cynic <cynic_999@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:15:51 +0100, Thored<invalid@invalid.co.uk
wrote:
It is only of use in reducing the probability that that *particular*
offender will re-offend, and has no effect on other potential
offenders. It must also be carefully managed so that the offender is
guided into empathising with his victim. Some offenders do not have a
suitable personality, and would never feel sympathy - especially where
he is of a different race or culture to the victim.
They certainly will not feel sympathy for those they despise anyway
The despising is against a concept rather than an individual. One
gang member may despise all members of an oposing gang - just as a
British soldier might despise German soldiers - as abstract concepts.
|
What if it isn't an abstract concept?
They may quite well hate anyone connected with the 'concept'. A few
years ago I could have introduced you to an ex POW of the Japanese. He
was greatly disappointed the allies did not nuke the entire country.
When some japanese engineers visited in the 60s he was sent home on
full pay as a precaution.
| Quote: |
But getting close up and personal in a 1:1 meeting where there is no
threat is a different thing entirely. The other person ceases to
represent the hated enemy and becomes just another human being.
|
But quite probably one he would like to kill. |
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