| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Alang
Guest
|
 Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
 |
|
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:18:52 +0200, abelard <abelard3@abelard.org>
wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:24:25 +0100, Thored<invalid@invalid.co.uk
wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:38:33 +0100, "Janitor of Lunacy"
ghost@attic.info> wrote:
Thored wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:20:18 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
mel.rowing@btinternet.com> wrote:
And of course if anyone killed with a knife or anything else he stood
a good chance of that 9-00 a.m. appointment with the public hangman.
You're right of course. The message would soon get around.
My lifetime has seen the abolition within the penal system of capital
punishment, hard labour, corporal punishment , preventative detention
(extended sentencing without remission for "incorrigible" criminals)
And the abolition of the right to bear arms.
Hmmm. That one seems to have passed me by. When did we ever have that right?
We still had the right to carry a gun or a knife or whatever right up
to 1953 when it became an offence to carry an offensive weapon without
good reason
Prevention of Crime Act 1953 (prohibition of the carrying of offensive
weapons without lawful excuse
Then the lawful excuse became a matter of guesswork. Get it wrong and
you ended up a criminal.
I used to have a link to some of the comments by MPs opposing the
measure. They seem to have forecast the results quite accurately when
one considers that the law abiding person is now at risk of death or
injury from the non law abiding person who does bear arms.
http://www.magnacartaplus.org/civil-liberties/index.htm
1946 Self-defence no longer considered a valid reason to own a gun.
regards
|
These were links to quotes from speeches made at the time. Might have
been posted by Marc Living. He was pretty clued up on that particular
act |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
abelard
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:30:02 +0100, Alang <invalid@invalid.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:18:52 +0200, abelard <abelard3@abelard.org
wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:24:25 +0100, Thored<invalid@invalid.co.uk
wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:38:33 +0100, "Janitor of Lunacy"
ghost@attic.info> wrote:
Thored wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:20:18 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
mel.rowing@btinternet.com> wrote:
And of course if anyone killed with a knife or anything else he stood
a good chance of that 9-00 a.m. appointment with the public hangman.
You're right of course. The message would soon get around.
My lifetime has seen the abolition within the penal system of capital
punishment, hard labour, corporal punishment , preventative detention
(extended sentencing without remission for "incorrigible" criminals)
And the abolition of the right to bear arms.
Hmmm. That one seems to have passed me by. When did we ever have that right?
We still had the right to carry a gun or a knife or whatever right up
to 1953 when it became an offence to carry an offensive weapon without
good reason
Prevention of Crime Act 1953 (prohibition of the carrying of offensive
weapons without lawful excuse
Then the lawful excuse became a matter of guesswork. Get it wrong and
you ended up a criminal.
I used to have a link to some of the comments by MPs opposing the
measure. They seem to have forecast the results quite accurately when
one considers that the law abiding person is now at risk of death or
injury from the non law abiding person who does bear arms.
http://www.magnacartaplus.org/civil-liberties/index.htm
1946 Self-defence no longer considered a valid reason to own a gun.
regards
These were links to quotes from speeches made at the time. Might have
been posted by Marc Living. He was pretty clued up on that particular
act
|
i take it you didn't look...
it was clarified in 1953
regards
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Paper Aeroplanes
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
abelard wrote:
| Quote: |
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:30:02 +0100, Alang <invalid@invalid.co.uk
wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:18:52 +0200, abelard <abelard3@abelard.org
wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:24:25 +0100, Thored<invalid@invalid.co.uk
wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:38:33 +0100, "Janitor of Lunacy"
ghost@attic.info> wrote:
Thored wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:20:18 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
mel.rowing@btinternet.com> wrote:
And of course if anyone killed with a knife or anything else he stood
a good chance of that 9-00 a.m. appointment with the public hangman.
You're right of course. The message would soon get around.
My lifetime has seen the abolition within the penal system of capital
punishment, hard labour, corporal punishment , preventative detention
(extended sentencing without remission for "incorrigible" criminals)
And the abolition of the right to bear arms.
Hmmm. That one seems to have passed me by. When did we ever have that right?
We still had the right to carry a gun or a knife or whatever right up
to 1953 when it became an offence to carry an offensive weapon without
good reason
|
The reason that the public were banned from having guns was that the
guvmint were shit scared of an armed revolution. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Alang
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:48:01 +0200, abelard <abelard3@abelard.org>
wrote:
| Quote: |
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:30:02 +0100, Alang <invalid@invalid.co.uk
wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:18:52 +0200, abelard <abelard3@abelard.org
wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:24:25 +0100, Thored<invalid@invalid.co.uk
wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:38:33 +0100, "Janitor of Lunacy"
ghost@attic.info> wrote:
Thored wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:20:18 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
mel.rowing@btinternet.com> wrote:
And of course if anyone killed with a knife or anything else he stood
a good chance of that 9-00 a.m. appointment with the public hangman.
You're right of course. The message would soon get around.
My lifetime has seen the abolition within the penal system of capital
punishment, hard labour, corporal punishment , preventative detention
(extended sentencing without remission for "incorrigible" criminals)
And the abolition of the right to bear arms.
Hmmm. That one seems to have passed me by. When did we ever have that right?
We still had the right to carry a gun or a knife or whatever right up
to 1953 when it became an offence to carry an offensive weapon without
good reason
Prevention of Crime Act 1953 (prohibition of the carrying of offensive
weapons without lawful excuse
Then the lawful excuse became a matter of guesswork. Get it wrong and
you ended up a criminal.
I used to have a link to some of the comments by MPs opposing the
measure. They seem to have forecast the results quite accurately when
one considers that the law abiding person is now at risk of death or
injury from the non law abiding person who does bear arms.
http://www.magnacartaplus.org/civil-liberties/index.htm
1946 Self-defence no longer considered a valid reason to own a gun.
regards
These were links to quotes from speeches made at the time. Might have
been posted by Marc Living. He was pretty clued up on that particular
act
i take it you didn't look...
it was clarified in 1953
I know. Home office made a unilateral illegal decision to stop guns |
being owned for defence in 1948.
It was the speeches opposing the 1953 act I was after. I'm pretty sure
Marc Living posted some at one time when this was up for discussion.
References to sheep being shorn IIRC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Cynic
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:36:10 +0200, abelard <abelard3@abelard.org>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"Our poll shows that 73% of parents would welcome an 8pm curfew for
young children while a further 17% would back one at 9pm. Similarly,
53% would welcome a nationwide 9pm curfew for 10 to 16-year-olds, with
a further 35% of parents saying a 10pm ban would be acceptable."
|
Why would parents who think that way *need* the state to apply a
curfew? If they want a curfew for *their* children, they have the
power and the right to apply it themselves. Once their own children
are safely indoors at the parentally enforced curfew time it is of no
concern to them what any *other* parents' children are doing.
--
Cynic |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
William Black
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
"Alang" <invalid@invalid.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ch1n74tf7l38stabi8u6upofh3klrfk8nu@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
I know. Home office made a unilateral illegal decision to stop guns
being owned for defence in 1948.
|
Nope. Not illegal.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
abelard
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:03:15 +0100, Alang <invalid@invalid.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:48:01 +0200, abelard <abelard3@abelard.org
wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:30:02 +0100, Alang <invalid@invalid.co.uk
wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:18:52 +0200, abelard <abelard3@abelard.org
wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:24:25 +0100, Thored<invalid@invalid.co.uk
wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:38:33 +0100, "Janitor of Lunacy"
ghost@attic.info> wrote:
Thored wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:20:18 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
mel.rowing@btinternet.com> wrote:
And of course if anyone killed with a knife or anything else he stood
a good chance of that 9-00 a.m. appointment with the public hangman.
You're right of course. The message would soon get around.
My lifetime has seen the abolition within the penal system of capital
punishment, hard labour, corporal punishment , preventative detention
(extended sentencing without remission for "incorrigible" criminals)
And the abolition of the right to bear arms.
Hmmm. That one seems to have passed me by. When did we ever have that right?
We still had the right to carry a gun or a knife or whatever right up
to 1953 when it became an offence to carry an offensive weapon without
good reason
Prevention of Crime Act 1953 (prohibition of the carrying of offensive
weapons without lawful excuse
Then the lawful excuse became a matter of guesswork. Get it wrong and
you ended up a criminal.
I used to have a link to some of the comments by MPs opposing the
measure. They seem to have forecast the results quite accurately when
one considers that the law abiding person is now at risk of death or
injury from the non law abiding person who does bear arms.
http://www.magnacartaplus.org/civil-liberties/index.htm
1946 Self-defence no longer considered a valid reason to own a gun.
regards
These were links to quotes from speeches made at the time. Might have
been posted by Marc Living. He was pretty clued up on that particular
act
i take it you didn't look...
it was clarified in 1953
I know. Home office made a unilateral illegal decision to stop guns
being owned for defence in 1948.
|
ok
| Quote: |
It was the speeches opposing the 1953 act I was after. I'm pretty sure
Marc Living posted some at one time when this was up for discussion.
References to sheep being shorn IIRC
|
i s'pose it can be found in the archives if it was ml....
or in hansard....
regards
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
abelard
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:13:01 +0100, Cynic <cynic_999@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:36:10 +0200, abelard <abelard3@abelard.org
wrote:
"Our poll shows that 73% of parents would welcome an 8pm curfew for
young children while a further 17% would back one at 9pm. Similarly,
53% would welcome a nationwide 9pm curfew for 10 to 16-year-olds, with
a further 35% of parents saying a 10pm ban would be acceptable."
Why would parents who think that way *need* the state to apply a
curfew? If they want a curfew for *their* children, they have the
power and the right to apply it themselves.
|
until some idiot calls in 'social' 'services' to constrain the
'child abuse'
| Quote: |
Once their own children
are safely indoors at the parentally enforced curfew time it is of no
concern to them what any *other* parents' children are doing.
|
they are constrained by the behaviour of the ferals 'new' labour
allows(and encourage) to run around with knives, other tools of
the trade in pursuance of their nuisance hobbies
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Alang
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:13 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:50:22 +0100, "William Black"
<william.black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Alang" <invalid@invalid.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ch1n74tf7l38stabi8u6upofh3klrfk8nu@4ax.com...
I know. Home office made a unilateral illegal decision to stop guns
being owned for defence in 1948.
Nope. Not illegal.
|
Actually it was. The law only required a good reason. It didn't give
the Home office the power to define what was a good reason. That's why
lots of people went to court to challenge it and the government ended
up changing the law. They had Blunketts even then |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
James Hammerton
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:45 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
abelard wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:51:34 -0700 (PDT), Maria <info@tajarts.co.uk
wrote:
On Jul 13, 2:36 am, abelard <abela...@abelard.org> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:14:05 -0700 (PDT), Maria <i...@tajarts.co.uk
wrote:
for 10-16 year olds.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4322650.ece
Maybe they should vote for curfews being a condition of receiving tax
credits (9 ou of 10 families), and wear a hair shirt at the weekends.
Baaah...
"Our poll shows that 73% of parents would welcome an 8pm curfew for
young children while a further 17% would back one at 9pm. Similarly,
53% would welcome a nationwide 9pm curfew for 10 to 16-year-olds, with
a further 35% of parents saying a 10pm ban would be acceptable."
what does that lot mean?
no clear ages....
centralised government as in the uk is much of the problem...
what do they want.....intelligent mature 15 yo's can't be allowed
out....thick aggressive 17 yo's can....
it's just more bollox....
bring in franchise by examination...
bring in local courts and lock ups if anyone really wishes to
stop the yobs
I like the idea of local, but does that happen anymore? Much council
activity seems now to be dictated from cengov - rubbish issues, what
the council's priorities should be, etc etc.
we have a centralising socialist government....
when i say local, i mean local.....vote for your local judges....vote
for your police chiefs....
|
There's also the centralising EU constraining action further.
James
--
James Hammerton,
http://jameshammerton.blogspot.com/
http://www.magnacartaplus.org/news/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
James Hammerton
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:50 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
Janitor of Lunacy wrote:
| Quote: |
Thored wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:20:18 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
mel.rowing@btinternet.com> wrote:
And of course if anyone killed with a knife or anything else he stood
a good chance of that 9-00 a.m. appointment with the public hangman.
You're right of course. The message would soon get around.
My lifetime has seen the abolition within the penal system of capital
punishment, hard labour, corporal punishment , preventative detention
(extended sentencing without remission for "incorrigible" criminals)
And the abolition of the right to bear arms.
Hmmm. That one seems to have passed me by. When did we ever have that right?
The following article has a potted history of the right to bear arms in |
the UK. It also doubles as a history and posited explanation for the
erosion of liberty, from someone who believes in the the right to bear arms:
http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/SlipperySlope.htm
James
--
James Hammerton,
http://jameshammerton.blogspot.com/
http://www.magnacartaplus.org/news/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
James Hammerton
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
Cynic wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:36:10 +0200, abelard <abelard3@abelard.org
wrote:
"Our poll shows that 73% of parents would welcome an 8pm curfew for
young children while a further 17% would back one at 9pm. Similarly,
53% would welcome a nationwide 9pm curfew for 10 to 16-year-olds, with
a further 35% of parents saying a 10pm ban would be acceptable."
Why would parents who think that way *need* the state to apply a
curfew? If they want a curfew for *their* children, they have the
power and the right to apply it themselves. Once their own children
are safely indoors at the parentally enforced curfew time it is of no
concern to them what any *other* parents' children are doing.
|
Unless those children are causing mischief on their doorstep, and the
relevant parents aren't exerting any control.
James
--
James Hammerton,
http://jameshammerton.blogspot.com/
http://www.magnacartaplus.org/news/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
William Black
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
"James Hammerton" <jah.usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6e1ovcF4u1d0U2@mid.individual.net...
| Quote: |
Janitor of Lunacy wrote:
Thored wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:20:18 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
mel.rowing@btinternet.com> wrote:
And of course if anyone killed with a knife or anything else he stood
a good chance of that 9-00 a.m. appointment with the public hangman.
You're right of course. The message would soon get around.
My lifetime has seen the abolition within the penal system of capital
punishment, hard labour, corporal punishment , preventative detention
(extended sentencing without remission for "incorrigible" criminals)
And the abolition of the right to bear arms.
Hmmm. That one seems to have passed me by. When did we ever have that
right?
The following article has a potted history of the right to bear arms in
the UK. It also doubles as a history and posited explanation for the
erosion of liberty, from someone who believes in the the right to bear
arms:
http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/SlipperySlope.htm
|
In the one page I bothered to read there are a whole series of dreadful
errors of fact.
I looked at the pages relating to the 1910 and 1911 Anarchist outrages in
London and both refer to the Anarchists as being armed with rifles when in
reality they were armed with Mauser and Browning pistols.
Such errors are not contusive to your cause.
People with knowledge of the history of firearms in the UK will know they
are errors and treat you as either ill informed or deliberately misleading.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
James Hammerton
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:34 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
William Black wrote:
| Quote: |
"James Hammerton" <jah.usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6e1ovcF4u1d0U2@mid.individual.net...
Janitor of Lunacy wrote:
Thored wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:20:18 -0700 (PDT), Mel Rowing
mel.rowing@btinternet.com> wrote:
And of course if anyone killed with a knife or anything else he stood
a good chance of that 9-00 a.m. appointment with the public hangman.
You're right of course. The message would soon get around.
My lifetime has seen the abolition within the penal system of capital
punishment, hard labour, corporal punishment , preventative detention
(extended sentencing without remission for "incorrigible" criminals)
And the abolition of the right to bear arms.
Hmmm. That one seems to have passed me by. When did we ever have that
right?
The following article has a potted history of the right to bear arms in
the UK. It also doubles as a history and posited explanation for the
erosion of liberty, from someone who believes in the the right to bear
arms:
http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/SlipperySlope.htm
In the one page I bothered to read there are a whole series of dreadful
errors of fact.
I looked at the pages relating to the 1910 and 1911 Anarchist outrages in
London and both refer to the Anarchists as being armed with rifles when in
reality they were armed with Mauser and Browning pistols.
|
My apologies. The article's coverage of the 20th century legislation on
firearms accorded with my knowledge, and I trusted it on some matters
which I'm not familiar with (e.g. the episode you refer to).
I shall be wary of that source in future. I note that the following
confirms your point about pistols being used, not rifles:
http://www.met.police.uk/history/sidney_street.htm
Was that the sum total of the series of dreadful errors of fact you spotted?
James
--
James Hammerton,
http://jameshammerton.blogspot.com/
http://www.magnacartaplus.org/news/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Cynic
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:43 am Post subject: Re: Knife Crime - British Sheeple Demand Nationwide Curfews |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:57:54 +0100, James Hammerton
<jah.usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
Why would parents who think that way *need* the state to apply a
curfew? If they want a curfew for *their* children, they have the
power and the right to apply it themselves. Once their own children
are safely indoors at the parentally enforced curfew time it is of no
concern to them what any *other* parents' children are doing.
Unless those children are causing mischief on their doorstep, and the
relevant parents aren't exerting any control.
|
In which case their are existing laws to deal with such things. It
does not require a general curfew.
--
Cynic |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
137 Attacks blocked
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
