Sociology Talk Sociology Talk    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion Into Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 15, 16, 17  Next          Sociology Talk Forum Index -> Constitution View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message buckeye Guest Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:01 am    Post subject: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion Into ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** PRESS RELEASE ** You can view an HTML version of this email at the following address: http://www.au.org/site/R?i=UzwrQvpKS7eMeHISTU1i7A.. June 11, 2008 Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion Into Public School Science Classes, Says Americans United Church-State Watchdog Group Warns Against Using Anti-Evolution Legislation To Advance Fundamentalism In The Classroom The Louisiana House of Representatives today approved a measure that opens the door to teaching creationism in public schools, an action that is likely to spark litigation, says Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. "It's time for Louisiana to step into the 21st century and stop trying to teach religion in public schools," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United. "Laws like this are an embarrassment." Lynn noted that Louisiana legislators have repeatedly tried to water down the teaching of evolution. In the 1980s, the state passed a law mandating "balanced treatment" between evolution and creationism. The measure was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 1987. Some parishes in Louisiana have voted to paste "disclaimers" in science books, casting doubt on evolution. "If this new law is used to promote religion in Louisiana public schools, I can guarantee there will be legal action," Lynn said. "Louisiana students deserve better, and Louisiana taxpayers should not have their money squandered on this losing effort." Americans United and allied organizations successfully brought a lawsuit against the teaching of "intelligent design" creationism in Dover, Pa., public schools in 2005. That case ended with the Dover school board being required to pay significant legal fees. Louisiana's new proposal would permit teachers to introduce "supplemental textbooks and other instructional materials" when studying evolution, global warming, human cloning and the origin of life. The measure now returns to the state Senate, which has already approved a previous version of the bill. http://www.au.org/site/R?i=dieTbN26KaQ5IXJZn8fsxg.. ************************************************************ Americans United is a religious liberty watchdog group based in Washington, D.C. Founded in 1947, the organization educates Americans about the importance of church-state separation in safeguarding religious freedom. ************************************************************ Americans United Press Contacts: Joe Conn, Rob Boston www.au.org/press ************************************************************ The First Freedom First Campaign is a joint project of Americans United for Separation of Church and State and The Interfaith Alliance Foundation If you haven't signed the petition yet, visit www.firstfreedomfirst.org. http://www.au.org/site/R?i=nxBA6e-YFQADxFfJlMGRAQ.. ************************************************************ Americans United for Separation of Church and State 518 C Street NE, Washington, DC 20002 auactivist@au.org www.au.org Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Hosea Prieto Guest Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion I buckeye wrote: Quote: Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. Are anti-evolution materials necessarily religious? Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Virgil Guest Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion I In article <Ijc5k.3033$i55.44@newsfe22.lga>, Hosea Prieto <hpriet56@yahoo.com> wrote: Quote: buckeye wrote: Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. Are anti-evolution materials necessarily religious? It is hard to imagine any reason for opposing evolution other than some kind of religious belief which is incompatible with it. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Jeff Strickland Guest Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion I "Hosea Prieto" <hpriet56@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Ijc5k.3033$i55.44@newsfe22.lga... Quote: buckeye wrote: Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. Are anti-evolution materials necessarily religious? I have to wonder if "anti-evolution" IS religion. I think it probably is. Having said that, I do not think there is a separation issue that arises from discussion of the merits of the theories of creation and evolution. Assuming creation is a religious topic, it seems to me that it would uniformly religious not specifically Christian. Granted, the bend of the ACLU is that religion is not problematic in and of itself, but teaching Christianity is a problem, and in America religion and Christianity is the same thing. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Jeff Strickland Guest Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion I "Virgil" <Virgil@gmale.com> wrote in message news:Virgil-1EFEB1.12045915062008@comcast.dca.giganews.com... Quote: In article <Ijc5k.3033$i55.44@newsfe22.lga>, Hosea Prieto <hpriet56@yahoo.com> wrote: buckeye wrote: Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. Are anti-evolution materials necessarily religious? It is hard to imagine any reason for opposing evolution other than some kind of religious belief which is incompatible with it. On the other hand, God could have created all, and the best that science can do is question how He did it, and arrive at evolution as the mechanism He employed. Even God would know better than to reinvent the wheel everytime He wanted something new. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Darrell Stec Guest Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion I Jeff Strickland wrote: Quote: "Hosea Prieto" <hpriet56@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Ijc5k.3033$i55.44@newsfe22.lga... buckeye wrote: Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. Are anti-evolution materials necessarily religious? I have to wonder if "anti-evolution" IS religion. I think it probably is. Having said that, I do not think there is a separation issue that arises from discussion of the merits of the theories of creation and evolution. Assuming creation is a religious topic, it seems to me that it would uniformly religious not specifically Christian. It is a fundamentalist, ignorant viewpoint. Catholics for instance are not anti-evolution nor are Christians from countries other than backwater USA. Even Judaism is not Creationistic. So it is not uniformly religious and except for fundamentalist Moslems it is primarily Christian in sects that abhor education. Quote: Granted, the bend of the ACLU is that religion is not problematic in and of itself, but teaching Christianity is a problem, and in America religion and Christianity is the same thing. -- Later, Darrell Stec darstec@neo.rr.com Webpage Sorcery http://webpagesorcery.com We Put the Magic in Your Webpages Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Josh Rosenbluth Guest Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:19 am    Post subject: Re: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion I Jeff Strickland wrote: Quote: "Hosea Prieto" <hpriet56@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Ijc5k.3033$i55.44@newsfe22.lga... buckeye wrote: Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. Are anti-evolution materials necessarily religious? I have to wonder if "anti-evolution" IS religion. I think it probably is. Having said that, I do not think there is a separation issue that arises from discussion of the merits of the theories of creation and evolution. Assuming creation is a religious topic, it seems to me that it would uniformly religious not specifically Christian. Firstly, creationism is not uniform across religions. It's tilted towards the monotheistic religions. Secondly, favoring religion uniformly across sects raises Establishment Clause issues. Quote: Granted, the bend of the ACLU is that religion is not problematic in and of itself, but teaching Christianity is a problem, and in America religion and Christianity is the same thing. Nonsense. The ACLU believes teaching any religion is a potential problem. Josh Rosenbluth Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Jeff Strickland Guest Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:29 am    Post subject: Re: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion I "Josh Rosenbluth" <jrosenbluth@gotcha.comcast.net> wrote in message news:O7udnZx5vajf5MjVnZ2dnUVZ_uLinZ2d@comcast.com... Quote: Jeff Strickland wrote: "Hosea Prieto" <hpriet56@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Ijc5k.3033$i55.44@newsfe22.lga... buckeye wrote: Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. Are anti-evolution materials necessarily religious? I have to wonder if "anti-evolution" IS religion. I think it probably is. Having said that, I do not think there is a separation issue that arises from discussion of the merits of the theories of creation and evolution. Assuming creation is a religious topic, it seems to me that it would uniformly religious not specifically Christian. Firstly, creationism is not uniform across religions. It's tilted towards the monotheistic religions. Duh. Multitheistic religions think that any of several gods are responsible for whatever the discussion topic is. Quote: Secondly, favoring religion uniformly across sects raises Establishment Clause issues. Granted, the bend of the ACLU is that religion is not problematic in and of itself, but teaching Christianity is a problem, and in America religion and Christianity is the same thing. Nonsense. The ACLU believes teaching any religion is a potential problem. Not entirely true. The ACLU has a long history of raising religous issues in school where the religion is Christianity, yet ignoring religiouis issues where Christianity specifically is trampled. The ACLU is remarkably anti-Christian to a greater degree than they are anti-religion. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Josh Rosenbluth Guest Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:11 am    Post subject: Re: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion I Jeff Strickland wrote: Quote: "Josh Rosenbluth" <jrosenbluth@gotcha.comcast.net> wrote in message news:O7udnZx5vajf5MjVnZ2dnUVZ_uLinZ2d@comcast.com... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Hosea Prieto" <hpriet56@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Ijc5k.3033$i55.44@newsfe22.lga... buckeye wrote: Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. Are anti-evolution materials necessarily religious? I have to wonder if "anti-evolution" IS religion. I think it probably is. Having said that, I do not think there is a separation issue that arises from discussion of the merits of the theories of creation and evolution. Assuming creation is a religious topic, it seems to me that it would uniformly religious not specifically Christian. Firstly, creationism is not uniform across religions. It's tilted towards the monotheistic religions. Duh. Multitheistic religions think that any of several gods are responsible for whatever the discussion topic is. Good, you agree with me then. Quote: Secondly, favoring religion uniformly across sects raises Establishment Clause issues. Granted, the bend of the ACLU is that religion is not problematic in and of itself, but teaching Christianity is a problem, and in America religion and Christianity is the same thing. Nonsense. The ACLU believes teaching any religion is a potential problem. Not entirely true. The ACLU has a long history of raising religous issues in school where the religion is Christianity, yet ignoring religiouis issues where Christianity specifically is trampled. The ACLU is remarkably anti-Christian to a greater degree than they are anti-religion. Citations? Josh Rosenbluth Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor cactus Guest Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:03 am    Post subject: Re: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion I Jeff Strickland wrote: Quote: "Josh Rosenbluth" <jrosenbluth@gotcha.comcast.net> wrote in message news:O7udnZx5vajf5MjVnZ2dnUVZ_uLinZ2d@comcast.com... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Hosea Prieto" <hpriet56@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Ijc5k.3033$i55.44@newsfe22.lga... buckeye wrote: Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. Are anti-evolution materials necessarily religious? I have to wonder if "anti-evolution" IS religion. I think it probably is. Having said that, I do not think there is a separation issue that arises from discussion of the merits of the theories of creation and evolution. Assuming creation is a religious topic, it seems to me that it would uniformly religious not specifically Christian. Firstly, creationism is not uniform across religions. It's tilted towards the monotheistic religions. Duh. Multitheistic religions think that any of several gods are responsible for whatever the discussion topic is. Secondly, favoring religion uniformly across sects raises Establishment Clause issues. Granted, the bend of the ACLU is that religion is not problematic in and of itself, but teaching Christianity is a problem, and in America religion and Christianity is the same thing. Nonsense. The ACLU believes teaching any religion is a potential problem. Not entirely true. The ACLU has a long history of raising religous issues in school where the religion is Christianity, yet ignoring religiouis issues where Christianity specifically is trampled. The ACLU is remarkably anti-Christian to a greater degree than they are anti-religion. The reason is that Christians tend to be less concerned about the Constitutional rights of others than are members of other religions. Christians tend to mount the most frequent and nastiest attacks on the religious rights of others. So of course they must be constrained. It will continue this way until Christian religious fascists figure out that an attack on anyone's religious freedoms are an attack on theirs as well. Fat chance. Their fanaticism is too strong and their faith is too weak to do anything but attack others. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Bob LeChevalier Guest Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:18 am    Post subject: Re: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion I Hosea Prieto <hpriet56@yahoo.com> wrote: Quote: buckeye wrote: Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. Are anti-evolution materials necessarily religious? No one except a certain subset of religious people have any interest in publishing anti-evolution materials. lojbab Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist lojbab@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Bob LeChevalier Guest Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion I "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> wrote: Quote: "Hosea Prieto" <hpriet56@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Ijc5k.3033$i55.44@newsfe22.lga... buckeye wrote: Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. Are anti-evolution materials necessarily religious? I have to wonder if "anti-evolution" IS religion. I think it probably is. Having said that, I do not think there is a separation issue that arises from discussion of the merits of the theories of creation and evolution. There are NO non-religious "theories" of creation. There is no scientific merit in what religionists write on the subject. There is a scientific Theory of Evolution. There is plenty of scientific merit in that theory. Quote: Assuming creation is a religious topic, It is nothing else. Quote: it seems to me that it would uniformly religious not specifically Christian. Except that no other religions considers Genesis to be literal dogma. Most other religions are perfectly aware that their creation stories are just that: stories. They have no need to interpret every word of some book as if it were literal truth. Quote: Granted, the bend of the ACLU is that religion is not problematic in and of itself, As long as it is kept to the private sphere, yes. Quote: but teaching Christianity is a problem, Teaching any religion is a problem. Teaching about religions plural, without implying that ANY of them are "true" could probably be acceptable. Quote: and in America religion and Christianity is the same thing. That isn't true, though some American Christians apparently wish that it were so. But it was never the case except in those colonies that had established religions. lojbab Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist lojbab@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor thomas p. Guest Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion I "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> skrev i en meddelelse news:UYe5k.43050$Xu2.2660@trnddc04... Quote: "Josh Rosenbluth" <jrosenbluth@gotcha.comcast.net> wrote in message news:O7udnZx5vajf5MjVnZ2dnUVZ_uLinZ2d@comcast.com... Jeff Strickland wrote: "Hosea Prieto" <hpriet56@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Ijc5k.3033$i55.44@newsfe22.lga... buckeye wrote: Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. Are anti-evolution materials necessarily religious? I have to wonder if "anti-evolution" IS religion. I think it probably is. Having said that, I do not think there is a separation issue that arises from discussion of the merits of the theories of creation and evolution. Assuming creation is a religious topic, it seems to me that it would uniformly religious not specifically Christian. Firstly, creationism is not uniform across religions. It's tilted towards the monotheistic religions. Duh. Multitheistic religions think that any of several gods are responsible for whatever the discussion topic is. Secondly, favoring religion uniformly across sects raises Establishment Clause issues. Granted, the bend of the ACLU is that religion is not problematic in and of itself, but teaching Christianity is a problem, and in America religion and Christianity is the same thing. Nonsense. The ACLU believes teaching any religion is a potential problem. Not entirely true. The ACLU has a long history of raising religous issues in school where the religion is Christianity, yet ignoring religiouis issues where Christianity specifically is trampled. The ACLU is remarkably anti-Christian to a greater degree than they are anti-religion. It opposes the teaching of religion in public schools. In the US that is likely to be Christian, but the ACLU has never given any indication of being anti-Christian or even anti-religion. I have no doubt that the lawyers of the ACLU include people of different religions; why wouldn't it? Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor thomas p. Guest Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion I "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> skrev i en meddelelse news:uCd5k.15727$8q2.366@trnddc02... Quote: "Virgil" <Virgil@gmale.com> wrote in message news:Virgil-1EFEB1.12045915062008@comcast.dca.giganews.com... In article <Ijc5k.3033$i55.44@newsfe22.lga>, Hosea Prieto <hpriet56@yahoo.com> wrote: buckeye wrote: Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. Are anti-evolution materials necessarily religious? It is hard to imagine any reason for opposing evolution other than some kind of religious belief which is incompatible with it. On the other hand, God could have created all, and the best that science can do is question how He did it, and arrive at evolution as the mechanism He employed. For science to question "how He did it", it would first have to establish that there was such a being. Even God would know better than to reinvent the wheel everytime He Quote: wanted something new. You know more about god than I do. Back to top   Ads Advertising Sponsor Ben Kaufman Guest Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Louisiana Will Face Lawsuit If New Law Brings Religion I On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 07:13:36 +0200, "thomas p." <gudloos@yahoo.com> wrote: Quote: "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@verizon.net> skrev i en meddelelse news:uCd5k.15727$8q2.366@trnddc02... "Virgil" <Virgil@gmale.com> wrote in message news:Virgil-1EFEB1.12045915062008@comcast.dca.giganews.com... In article <Ijc5k.3033$i55.44@newsfe22.lga>, Hosea Prieto <hpriet56@yahoo.com> wrote: buckeye wrote: Approved by a 94-3 vote, the so-called "Science Education Act" (SB 733) allows public school teachers to use "supplemental materials" when discussing evolution. Americans United and other groups contend that those "supplemental materials" are likely to be anti-evolution books, DVDs and other items produced by fundamentalist Christian ministries. The measure is being pushed by the Louisiana Family Forum, the Discovery Institute and other Religious Right forces. Are anti-evolution materials necessarily religious? It is hard to imagine any reason for opposing evolution other than some kind of religious belief which is incompatible with it. On the other hand, God could have created all, and the best that science can do is question how He did it, and arrive at evolution as the mechanism He employed. For science to question "how He did it", it would first have to establish that there was such a being. Even God would know better than to reinvent the wheel everytime He wanted something new. You know more about god than I do. I don't think so. The one who knows the most about god knows the least. 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